Changes to Fueldump

[Outblast]

I had people complaining to me about the missing CP spawn yesterday. One guy even explain how much time and adrenaline he is wasting to get to fuel dump from the cave spawn

I do like the little changes to maps. It sometimes changes the gameplay of the map when they start to get a little boring.
I might be clutching at straws, but please give some anti molotov protection on the train on railgun. Those things are cancer to this map

[MaTT]

I had people complaining to me about the missing CP spawn yesterday. One guy even explain how much time and adrenaline he is wasting to get to fuel dump from the cave spawn

Well the Allied CP spawn shouldn't actually be gone, I think I mixed up a few bits of code and disabled them by mistake. I do think however, that the map is more balanced without them which is why I haven't added them back just yet (since it basically offers a quick, direct route to the fuel depot from there now the east barricade is gone). I think I will add them back if people are missing them though, but when the CP is constructed the spawn time of Allies will increase to 10 seconds from 6; I feel like this will balance things out, but make the players who want to spawn there happy.

Those things are cancer

FTFY

It's possible to remove molotovs from this map altogether, but leave them on other maps. I don't think there is any other way to prevent them. I 100% agree to that though, they are fucking horrible on that map particularly.

[PrInCe]

We could discuss changes for several days without doing anything good and then go back a as normal (which is wasn't) and it would be a waste of time.

So you don't trust our Members to have good ideas for improve our servers? They play everyday on the server, I think they are in first place to say what is good and what is wrong, and enough clever to try to fix it. Imo, it should be better to test these changes on scrim server and ask our members, instead of force the changes on ND, because it seem like that. It was same for Oasis map, and we just need to accept it.. Sorry but I don't.

Of course, i'm not talking about the work Matt did, but how he decide himself to put it on ND without asking anyone, even the Leading-Team, if we can call us like this.

[FuRious]

We could discuss changes for several days without doing anything good and then go back a as normal (which is wasn't) and it would be a waste of time.

So you don't trust our Members to have good ideas for improve our servers? They play everyday on the server, I think they are in first place to say what is good and what is wrong, and enough clever to try to fix it. Imo, it should be better to test these changes on scrim server and ask our members, instead of force the changes on ND, because it seem like that. It was same for Oasis map, and we just need to accept it.. Sorry but I don't.

Of course, i'm not talking about the work Matt did, but how he decide himself to put it on ND without asking anyone, even the Leading-Team, if we can call us like this.

This is not the way of my sentence, do not get me wrong.

What i wanted to say is that we can test it out and then debate it in this topic. If there is something wrong, ofc it will be back to normal. Everyone are free to tell if something don't work or is boring or even tell if something is good of course.
Some members already gave their opinions. You didn't and i didn't (even if i will soon once i tested the map multiple times).
So , what MaTT have to do ? Doing a poll on every scripts ? At his place i would be quickly bored looking at the time it will get to implement all the changes.
Yes, it's better to ask the opinion of "everyone" because everyone are involved (even the guests ) but seriously, is that the best solution for the one who are doing the job ?

Anyway, like i said :

Right now, I think MaTT should post his ideas for the coming changes (if any) before to do something.

[MaTT]

The big issue with democracy is, things take too long. People have disagreements and arguments, it never changes. There are big changes to the clan such as level system changes, new servers, removing servers and the such which definitely need the opinions of members before we carry out a change so big. Then there are small changes like some promotions, forum tweaks, clan war changes, and map tweaks.

So the question is, what is my definition of "small changes" and how we go about doing them. Well, they are not like big changes in which the direction of the clan could fundamentally change, they're more like subtle changes which would help move it in the direction it is already going. I honestly don't think that something like a map tweak or a forum tweak, or a low-level promotion needs a full discussion because in the long run I don't think it's worth it.

I am however NOT saying that the opinions of members do not matter in any case. In my opinion a small change can be done to the clan without opinions or with minimal opinions because it does not fundamentally change the way the clan operates, and then opinions can be collected while the change is in place so we can tweak, add to or remove the changes. That is why in this case, I posted a topic to let people know and to gather opinions on what people say. It has not gone unheard and already the Allied CP is back in place.

Long story short, if everything is run through a democratic system, nothing will get done. Simple

[PrInCe]

I honestly don't think that something like a map tweak or a forum tweak, or a low-level promotion needs a full discussion because in the long run I don't think it's worth it.

It's really a bad example if you ask me. Peoples don't care about a forum tweak or a low-level promotion, but they care more about maps they play everyday on the server.. It's not a little thing, and it need to be discussed with everyone. If peoples join the Clan, it's because they enjoy playing on server, not because we have a good background for our forum, so If you are doing some changes on server, it take a risk for the Clan, so it's not a small changes. And, we are not in a good period for our server activity, that decrease day after day, and I don't think it will help, because it seem that many dislike these changes.

[Veteran]

I agree with Prince, maybe you think it's wasting of time - asking people what they think etc. But more opinions mean it going to be better... With map changes We risk a lot and in my opinion it's a really big change, not small.

[MaTT]

I honestly don't think that something like a map tweak or a forum tweak, or a low-level promotion needs a full discussion because in the long run I don't think it's worth it.

It's really a bad example if you ask me. Peoples don't care about a forum tweak or a low-level promotion, but they care more about maps they play everyday on the server.. It's not a little thing, and it need to be discussed with everyone. If peoples join the Clan, it's because they enjoy playing on server, not because we have a good background for our forum, so If you are doing some changes on server, it take a risk for the Clan, so it's not a small changes. And, we are not in a good period for our server activity, that decrease day after day, and I don't think it will help, because it seem that many dislike these changes.

I think you understand what I mean though, even if you think it is a bad example. I do understand what you mean about changes to the server affecting how visitors see the server, but same thing can be said about the forum, and it has even happened in the past; I remember updating the forum to the current version from the old Refraction theme, and some people came to me saying they didn't like the change. This is the reason I put forum changes in the same category as the server; visitors use the server the most so they are affected by changes, members use the forum the most so they are affected by changes there.

I would like to know where you got the info that 'many' people dislike the changes. From what i've experienced, it's kind of divided 50/50; there's been a few good comments saying people like the changes (such as in this topic), and some people suggesting improvements which was the whole idea of this, and so far very few people said they outright disliked the overall change.

[PrInCe]

Of course we can be affected by a forum changes, but in my opinion, it's not same as be affected with a maps changes, because it influence the fun you can have on the server, and so the activity. And you know that, even if peoples dislike the forum changes, they will not leave, they will ask you to change it, but on server, we have many visitors to lost. And I don't know where you see many "good comments" that like the changes, I see only many thing to change again, or others who think it was a bad idea, so I think it was better to discuss first.

[Umelinydd]

I think it's not a big deal,just a small change in map.If he's going to ask opinions from everyone it would take days or even weeks to make changes,so it would be a waste of time really.Personally,when I gave my opinion I wasn't against the change,I just wanted Matt to improve the changes and I didn't see anyone complaining about this (visitors).I am with the idea giving these changes a tryout (maybe a week or two) and see the results ,even if it goes in the negative side I don't think it will be a big problem (activity will decrease by only a tiny amount )
P.S Players only complained about cp spawn and now it's fixed