Changes to Fueldump

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Is the changes on the map are fine or not ?

Poll ended at Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:55 pm

All is fine now we keep the changes.
8
67%
No, it was better before we have to put it back to the last version.
3
25%
Some changes are good but some other not (in this case please post your suggestions).
1
8%
I don't care.
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 12

Changes to Fueldump

Postby MaTT » Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:43 pm

Hello everyone,

I've noticed on this map that the Axis dominate the defence of the fuel depot easily on this map, especially since nowadays there are less bots and more skillful players. So to combat this, i've made a few changes to the layout of the fuel depot itself:

  1. The east depot barricade (one closest to the Axis spawn) is now fully constructable
  2. The west depot barricade (one furthest away from the Axis spawn) is now only partially constructable
  3. The Axis garage spawn (in the building with the truck) has been removed
  4. An MG42 nest has been added in the depot wall's west bunker (next to the 2nd tank wall) facing inwards

The general idea behind this is not necessarily to make it more difficult for the Axis, but to make it easier for the Allies to access the fuel dump. The east depot barricade is now fully constructable which balances it in favor for the Axis due to the west depot barricade now being open which balances it for the Allies more. The reasoning behind this switch over is to give the allies better passage to the fuel depot through a less axis-defended area, as well as being further away from the Axis spawn.

However, the Axis can still defend the area using the MG42 nest added on the depot wall's west bunker; this MG42 nest may be the biggest, most important addition to this map. The MG42 nest faces inwards to the depot and easily covers the whole area where the west depot barricade is as well as a part of the middle section where the transformers are near the steps up. The MG42 does not cover the stairs leading up on the wall and into that west bunker however, and the MG42 operator will not be able to see players coming up to kill the operator; so situational awareness will be important as well as relying on your team.

This MG42 nest works both ways, if the allies have managed to get through and plant a dynamite. Axis rushing to get around and through the west depot to defend the fuel depot itself might be faced with an Allied player on the MG42. Since the Axis come from the direction of the door, the Allied operator may be killed quickly, but it may or may not buy the allied dynamite enough time to blow up.

If Axis focus all their defence on the west depot barricade though, the East barricade can still be satcheled/dynamited, so don't forget that axis! An Allied player may also sneak up to the MG42 and clear the area of defenders as well. Of course the garage spawn for the Axis, right in the middle building of the fuel depot, has been removed since it allowed the Axis to re-deploy their defenses far too quickly for the Allies after getting killed.

Let me know what you think of the changes when you play, it may take some time for some to adjust or realize the changes. I may also be making some changes to Goldrush in the future, but please let me know more about your own experiences on that map before I do.
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Re: Changes to Fueldump

Postby Umelinydd » Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:30 am

Here's my first experience ( tested by me and kirka,we did a simulations to real situations,kirka as an allied engi/apple2 as an axis engi )
First, Removing the garage spawn will decrease the 'dominating defense' i think it balanced the map a little
Second, The MG-42 nest didn't help Axis and the mg user could be killed so easily by allies
Third,The west depot barricade being partially construct-able, Helped allies so much it became fairly easy to plant dynamite(however mines might do the job)
Finally, In case of allied team planted dynamite,Allies can easily guard the two axis spawn exits and hold them for little while (since the garage spawn removed)
However this depends in the players
>In normal conditions (fair teams) I think allied team will dominate most of the time

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Some Axis engineers (bots) are trying to construct west barricade where the construction materials no longer exists
so this will decrease axis defense (in case of there are some bots in the map), which is critical (for example loosing two engineers bots)

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suggest after allied team destroyed both depot sides the cp spawn of allied team move to [E,3] (Tunnel exit) so this can be fair for both team

Note : All of this , In the case of allied team already conquered the depot gate and broke depot-side axis defense. I don't know before that what would happen (before allied team enter the depot and by depot I mean the whole place not the fuel dump axis spawn,fuel dump...)
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Re: Changes to Fueldump

Postby Outblast » Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:03 am

I think making the east gate fully constructable makes it difficult to rush to defuse the dynamite for axis. I do like the overall change but i thought the objective is fully duable as it is when 3 players are working together.
To combat this issue, I propose a solution i found in Fuel Dump revenge... a door.
The benefits are:
- Allies can still have the easier west side entry (being half consutructed)
- axis can rush to defend through the door next to the gate without going through a half open gate
- balance is kept as allies have it easier but not too easy, allowing for axis to defend.
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Re: Changes to Fueldump

Postby Veteran » Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:05 am

In my opinion "The Axis garage spawn (in the building with the truck) has been removed" could be enough to balance Fueldump or atleast lower there respawn time or spawn protection. For now it looks like Alliance have got a big advantage.

"The east depot barricade (one closest to the Axis spawn) is now fully constructable" - that's good too, but "The west depot barricade (one furthest away from the Axis spawn) is now only partially constructable" - that's worst idea ever...

I didn't play after that changes, but I have got a lot of experience of Fuel Dump and I think that was bad idea.
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Re: Changes to Fueldump

Postby Outblast » Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:41 am

I just played the map now and I have two points:

1. its way to easy for allies, so i stick to my door suggestion to balance it out
2. allies lost a spawn point next to the cp. Didnt like that
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Re: Changes to Fueldump

Postby Umelinydd » Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:46 am

Outblast wrote:I just played the map now and I have two points:

1. its way to easy for allies, so i stick to my door suggestion to balance it out
2. allies lost a spawn point next to the cp. Didnt like that

True but allies lost cp spawn could balance the map a little. As i suggested moving allied spawn point to (E,2) could be nice
but was the remove of cp spawn in purpose or a bug?
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Re: Changes to Fueldump

Postby Lurker » Thu Jul 28, 2016 2:43 pm

It is actually possible to get the objective done quicker and play more like a team.
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Re: Changes to Fueldump

Postby MaTT » Thu Jul 28, 2016 3:19 pm

I notice some of the reasoning behind a lot of your opinions. However, it is very early to call a conclusion on the changes so it will be left for at least 1 week to see if players will adapt to the changes. I also forgot to mention that the map timelimit has been brought down to 20 minutes as opposed to the original 25 minutes. This is to cover the fact that the allies have an easier time getting to the depot.

The removal of the Allied CP spawn wasn't intentional and may be a bug that needs fixing. But the fact that players get killed quickly on the MG42 is intentional. The MG42 is in a very dominant position to defend the west barricade, and it would be overpowered if players could sit up there, blasting everyone while remaining unharmed.
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Re: Changes to Fueldump

Postby DisColow » Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:05 pm

I agree with Matt, we should wait more before concluding anything :)
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Re: Changes to Fueldump

Postby FuRious » Fri Jul 29, 2016 7:59 pm

I know some of you would prefer to discuss the new changes made on Fueldump before putting them in place.
First, let me say that it's not so simple to change some scripts and it's a hard work.

MaTT has done his best to improve things on maps (goldrush, radar, fueldump and oasis) and give our server basically unique.
We could discuss changes for several days without doing anything good and then go back a as normal (which is wasn't) and it would be a waste of time.
For that, MaTT took the initiative to undertake this kind of change to improve the gameplay and thus enjoy a better experience on the server and improving the activity and popularity of ND..
This topic has been created for that everyone can give his feedback on the changes (good or not, which has already been done for some of you).
All reviews are important to fix and improve them..

Feel free to try this map and give your feelings (even negative because everything will never be perfect).
Right now, I think MaTT should post his ideas for the coming changes (if any) before to do something. In this case, everyone can be involved and tell if they agree or not even if it's not that simple.

Thank you MaTT for the work and thank you to everyone for your understanding. :)
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